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Art Area: Barry Leiba, Murray Kucherawy | 2017-Mar-16 —  
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IETF-109 jmap minutes

Session 2020-11-16 1430-1530: Room 1 - jmap chatroom

Minutes

minutes-109-jmap-01 minutes



          JMAP session minutes - IETF109 (Bangkok virtual)
          ===
          
          Monday 2020-11-16 14:30 - 15:30
          
          ## Intro and Note Well: 2 min
          
          ## Submitted documents:
          
          ### draft-ietf-jmap-mdn - 3 min
          
          Barry is not here...has been in AD followup state. No known action
          required at present.
          
          ## Discussion of current work items:
          
          ### draft-ietf-jmap-calendars - 10 min
          
          Neil Jenkins: Currently getting implementation experience.
          
          - Adding invitations: You don't normally have permission to modify someone
          else's events. Should server handle adding/updating invites? Not sure
          what CALDAV is doing, maybe permissions aren't enforced. Perhaps add
          event without claiming ownership of it (no email updates, for example).
          - Participant identities: Planned move to one set of identities
          per account (rather than per calendar). Datatype, not just account
          property? If so, merged with mail identity? Are identity and partipant
          URI comparisons case sensitive?
          
          Alexey: how different are they from Email identities?
          
          Neil:
          * things like signatures are relevant for email, not calendar
          * calendaring, may not be an email address - another update system
          may exist.
          * some but not complete overlap
          
          Robert:
          * update the principal on the calendar?
          * how would we implement something like secretary mode?
          
          Neil:
          * that calendar would come from a different account.  Would only be
          an issue if the user wanted to share two different calendars, one in
          secretary mode, one not.
          * Generally you'd have team calendars in a team account, plus individual
          calendars would always be shared from individual accounts in secretary
          mode.
          
          Bron:
          * Caldav format currently has one set of addresses per principal.
          The thing we build from here was a calconnect thing based an early Apple
          spec which is not what Apple are using now.
          
          Ken:
          * think it should be the same datatype, repurpose the existing Identity
          object.
          
          Neil:
          * case specification: what do we compare case sensitive vs insensitive?
          Mailbox is potentially case sensitive but in practice nobody does.
          * 99% of the time, ASCII case insenitive is the right thing to do.
          
          Alexey:
          * almost a question for emailcore.  If you ever have a system where
          localparts are case sensitive, then you'll break things!  Don't do that.
          
          Neil:
          * maybe a best practice to say "don't do that"
          
          Alexey:
          * can't compare generic URIs case insensitively.
          
          Neil:
          * mostly mailto: right now, but could see different schemas in the future.
          
          Alexey:
          * https: host is case insensitive, path is not.
          
          
          NEXT STEPS:
          * will update spec for next IETF.  Think we've got ideas.
          
          ACTION: Neil to update jmap-calendars spec before next IETF
          
          
          ### draft-ietf-jmap-jscontact - 10 min
          
          Robert Stepanek presenting
          
          jscontact-02 (no changes since last IETF)
          jscontact-vcard-01 (has been updated)
          
          Mario:
          * JAVA library which implements conversion between VCARD and JSContact
          and validation of JSContact objects.
          
          Robert:
          * during the mapping we cover everything of the available VCARD
          properties, is that right?
          
          Mario:
          * Tested the library against all the card objects found on the web,
          included responses from RDAP service.  More than 1000 responses!
          * If anyone has examples which aren't covered, would be happy to test
          against those!
          
          Robert:
          * in any case, will provide a strong foundation for any changes.
          
          What remains:
          * weak points of vcard are still dragged into jscontact.   Address parts
          are very "Western".  Expect that will be the biggest thing to get right.
          * Robert will update the core spec.
          * We need more implementations!  Robert will do the Cyrus IMAP
          implementation.
          
          Bron:
          * challenge with vcards was the "groups".
          
          ACTION: Robert to get more implmenentation experience with jscontact
          
          ### draft-ietf-jmap-sieve - 10 min
          
          Ken Murchison presenting
          
          Changes since IETF 108:
          * accountCapabilities: new capabilities
          * SieveScript object property changes (name and isActive)
          * Nesting of scripts? (no comments)
          * SieveScript/set
          * SieveScript/query (filter and sort on name and isActive)
          
          Alexey: would like isIncluded now that that idea was mentioned
          
          * SieveScript/test request
          
          Bron: asks about email blobs
          
          * SieveScript/test reply
          
          Should :fcc be its own sub-object?
          
          Alexey: suggests not
          
          Rate limits for test?
          
          Bron: there is already a rate limit for setError, use that or http
          rate limit
          
          ACTION: Bron to issue Working Group Last call for sieve draft soon
          
          ## New work:
          
          ### draft-gondwana-jmap-blob - 10 min
          
          Bron Gondwana presenting
          
          Several have read it. Jim to issue call for adoption.
          
          Alexey: pretty sensible. Example for deletions.
          
          Bron: Ephemeral yes/no?
          
          Ken: get method: return raw octets?
          
          Bron: Can only request as text, base64, or hex
          
          Open question about range operators (in draft)
          
          Alexey: this makes sense
          
          RDIFF data about blob? Maybe too advanced for this spec.
          
          Robert: properties mandatory?
          
          Bron: default to data as text if text and base 64 otherwise, but maybe
          better to require the format
          
          ACTION: Jim to issue call for adoption for blob draft
          
          
          ## Discussion:
          
          ### Notes, Files, etc ... JMAP for data portability - 10 min
          
          JMAP for data transfer: calendars/contacts underway, Fastmail has basic
          spec for notes
          
          Joris Baum: Interested in tasks as well. Is there a JMAP for
          tasks? Looking at possibility of contributing in this area.
          
          Neil: JMAP for this would be straightforward, referencing this data type.
          
          ACTION: Joris to propose drafts for notes / tasks / etc.
          
          ## Milestone review: 5 min
          
          Quotas, S/MIME still pending
          Alexey: S/MIME in Spring (northern hemisphere :) )
          
          Guidance document: still todo!  Pushed back a bit more.  2020 man.
          Blobs pushed back a bit
          JSContact: 4-6 months
          JMAP Sieve: Fairly close, pending reviews. Last call once there is
          implementation experience  probably December still/
          
          



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